From Bedridden to Thriving: Our Real Fibromyalgia Journey

But it's okay. Okay. Hi guys. We're here with Dan Perer MD today, Purser Wellness. And we have, who do we have here with us today, guys? Uh Lois Schwigger from N Fibro with Natural Options. And Denise Perer with Purser Wellness. I'm Chantel Perser. I am Dr. Perser's

daughter. You guys usually hear me behind the camera. I It's chicks around the office though, not Chantel. But so I can call you Chicky. It's okay. [laughter] We already we have a show and tell at the front desk, so if you've called her, that's not me. But we probably could be sisters [laughter] alike, but I'm just

chicks at the office. And yeah, we can all call each other that. [laughter] Okay, good. I was thinking, oh, what if I call her chicky? I know, right? Call me that. I prefer it. I feel like I'm in trouble with Shantel. Um, and did you say you're from the N fibro? N fibro. Yeah, n fibro.

And what's our month today? What's so special about June that we're doing all this and filming? June is our anniversary month and um that was one thing I wanted to clarify. So, this would be great. Um we've had a few people who've ordered both the genetic and the CMA testing. It is on sale for our anniversary month. Uh

Dr. Perer has graciously once again offered us $100 off each of those tests, which is the deepest discount that he gives. Um and he doesn't give it anywhere else, so it's just special for us. Um, and so, uh, also this year, um,

for something to make it even better was one person who orders during the month of June will be chosen to have their test reimbured, the the amount reimbursed. So, when people were ordering both, um, you guys decided to

just put their name in twice. So, they got $100 off each test, right? Plus, the possibility they were in it just doubled. So, that's awesome. So, I wanted to clarify that for people. And so, we still have a couple weeks left in June. So, if you've been thinking about potentially wanting

to get a CMA or your genetics done, if that's been on your checklist, um this is the the good time to do it. So, you get the best deal of the year. Um right here during this this time of year, right? Yeah. Perfect. I think it's great. And we're posting

all this fun stuff on the Fibro page. Really, just make sure to go take a look at it. It's all great. I love it. Yeah. Maybe we can put the link up when we post it. Okay, perfect. Yay. What did we want to talk about today? What was the first one? Um, well, we were just chatting and we

were talking about something. We were like, we need to make this, we should share this with people because all three of us have been on this protocol for many years now. You've been on it since you were a teenager. Yeah. Teenager, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and how the results we

continue to improve. It's not um, you know, we always a journey. Yes, it's a journey and it's still ongoing. Ongoing. And um we I You're going to have to cut this out. I just had a brain.

I can go cuz just this morning I was you know I was going somewhere important. [laughter] You It was the bromelain and the hot tub. Yeah, it always gets me. So recently we just I live you know I'm with my parents still and I was hot tubing at their

place. It's a little fun blow up hot tub and it's been what a year since I've used it the last time and I didn't realize I've lost quite a bit of weight since then and I didn't realize using it a bunch of times I would get fibro flares from the rum lane in the hot tub. I don't that might just be

sitting in it excessively. Yeah. Sitting, you know, you go hot tub and you have to go sit there for quite a few hours. And I I was having really bad morning. My hands were all swollen and I I don't know. I was goofy. I was dropping stuff. That's a really I don't

know if you guys have struggled with that, but for me, a fibro flare, I drop stuff a lot. Interesting. Like my motor functions don't work as well. Or if I'm reaching for my phone, I like Yes. Like I almost glitch out reaching for it. [laughter] Gen Z term. Sorry. Glitch.

No, but really of like I can't fully grasp even just picking up my phone or I kept dropping stuff in Breen's office when I was helping her out with some papers and she was so concerned cuz I kept dropping the same paper over and over and over again and I maybe some of you have dealt with

that with fibro. That's a big fibro sign for me or big flare sign. Um and then I what did you say something to me to take? I said maybe you should try take some catalates. Yeah. Yeah. And so Breen had some catalase in her office and I took six catalace and six sod

and it'll probably freak everybody out. Freak you out. I I have had to take big doses of everything. I'm so so sensitive. My fibro is horrible. It was really debilitating as a teenager and that was maybe 20 minutes ago, 15 minutes ago.

Miracle she is. I was super fuzzy. I couldn't even focus on the conversation we were having. Right. I was a little sweating. Sweating it out. Sweating. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And I don't sweat. I promise I don't sweat. Just you make you feel unwell.

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely get a little prespiration almost on my face when I'm having a fibro flare like that. A little fibro, you know. Yeah. But I can feel my hands again. They're all nice again. I promise. Can see all my tendons finally. Um

they were puffy. Yeah, they were puffy. And now they're they it's already gone down. Yeah, it's incredible and it's frightening to be 21 and [laughter] that's what I was going to say actually. It was like we do not claim a cure but a way to manage our symptoms. And what I have found and we've talked about this

numerous times is that as it goes on um we just keep getting better. We still have some flares, but we know how to deal with them and we can get to the other side quicker. That was a perfect example. um and how we just with every

new product, yes, it's another piece to the puzzle. And so it's just about managing our symptoms, knowing what our bodies need, right? What we're lacking and um you know, genetically it's like we all have some sort of commonality, some sort of you

know, snip that affects our methylation cycle or you know, which ends up with our inflammation and cytoins and all of that stuff that we're learning about. Um, and so yeah, just continuing to manage and continuing. But you and I, we've watched each other together

especially. Um, and when we were young mommies with all the babies, we were miserable. [laughter] I don't know how we did it. I don't know how either. I'm sure everyone can relate to that. The love of your family and praying to God, please

help me. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it was just survival. I mean, yeah. How many times were there? I got to pull over and throw up. [laughter] Too many. Middle school. Yeah. Um and so, but and and you and I

watching each other now as grandmothers and how like we we're just we're we're thriving and we're continuing to get better. It doesn't mean we don't have setbacks. Doesn't mean we don't have little flares, but they're not what they were, right? And um and usually and the pause and I want to

point that out when you're in a flare, you can appreciate this is you can't think clear and sometimes you just don't know what to do. So I always carry little things in my purse as an emergency. Um more glutathione, more sod, more catalace. Um and thank goodness Breen was watching Chantel and

thought quickly you you need a little extra. That was me. I'm going to take I'm going to take credit. Sorry. Lois gets pretty. you had just been talking about all the inflammation and cat. So that's why I thought maybe you need some catalytes and it's good. So tag team with your family, you know, so that they can help

you or your friends. And what I'm just realizing because I was really like taking very minimal dosages than I normally do because we were out of stock for a while and I promise we don't hoard any stuff for ourselves. I was seriously out. We

were sharing a bottle by the end of it and I was taking like a fifth of what I normally do every day. And you now see now I'm can think more clearly because we finally in this last week I've been able to actually take full doses again of everything. Right.

And game changer. Yeah. And well I'm realizing I I was so goofy and I've been in so I was a little bit on Tylenol again. Just a little bit. Oh no. We're not allowed to say that, are we? You're fine. It's reality. It's real. Gotta do what you got to Yeah, but when we were out, I I had to come to work and I had to work

and I had all these things I had to do. So, I was taking Tylenol when I really needed to. I don't like taking any pain medication, but I couldn't even think straight just working at my desk. And I and I'm just realizing I'm probably still feeling the effects of not taking a full dose of everything that I

normally do for quite a few weeks. And I'm just catching up because it's that how how I've been saying, "Oh, my neck just hurts all the time and my my back hurts and my feet hurt. I try to be pretty active. I do I like to walk every day and I ride my bike every day for

quite a few hours every day. But I'm just realizing I'm probably am still coming out of a flare. So there you go. I've been on Dr. Perer's protocol, my dad's protocol for a number of years. Yeah. Quite a few years since I was maybe 14 when it got when it really hit

the peak at its worst and I was debilitated almost and it was really concerning. Mhm. And so that proves it's a few years and even just a few months off. Again, it's not a cure, but it is it changes. We're managing. We're managing. Yeah. And have a good life.

And just when you're used to pain, it's weird to get unused to it again of feel, what was I saying? I almost feel a little discombobulated out of pain cuz it's like I can focus better on stuff. Oh, yeah. I I remember early on the when

I first started having like pain-free days. Yes. And it'd be like halfway through the day and I'd be like, "Wait a second." Right. Nothing hurts right now. I don't even know. You know, and so now it's like it's the opposite. It's like cuz now you're Yeah. Now I'm like, Yeah. And

shut that down. Yeah. Yeah. But what I was going to say was what you were saying and I will even call you and be like, I don't know what's going on with me. And because and I'm talking to people all the time and but when it comes to ourselves sometimes we forget. Yeah. You know, and it's like if if

somebody was saying the same thing to me, I know what I would tell them, but sometimes I need you to say, "You need to take some more of this. You need to up that." And I'm like, "Oh, I do. Why haven't I thought about that for myself?" Well, because we do the same thing. How many times do I my head hurts? I can't

think clearly. My neck hurts. Or I'm just not recovering from workouts or just being active more. I'm like, "What's wrong with me? Why do I hurt so bad?" Today my legs really hurt on I was I have an under the desk pedal bike that I just use all day and I was like why do my why do the

tendons on my like my Achilles tendons hurt and my thighs hurt really bad cuz that's not normal. We've been a little unactive the last few days all hanging out and getting and seeing each other again but it's just that I say that all the time like I'm just not recovering from my workouts or everything hurts all the

time and are you taking your sod are you taking yours? No, I'm not being bad. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. And you know, and also I was chatting coaching with a patient this morning and just a gentle reminder of we're all at a

different place on this journey. And when you're just getting started, if you've got some genetic issues that are related to your gut and you have a hard time, you know, with your gut issues going and coming, um you will want to start so slow.

Yeah. And maybe even start with topical glutathione. start with a topical sod um just because you want to get your body used to what it doesn't have. Yeah. Yeah. And if especially if it's genetically related like it is for most of us in in the fibro world, it's

there's genetic reasons we don't have the transforation pathway due to the inability to make these things in our own body, right? And so you have to go so slow. You know, I even was coaching the patient as she adds in her sod that sometimes after you

get going with it topically, you might want to try reintroducing it if you've had a rough go just trying a full capsule all on your own and you might have you might vomit, you might have diarrhea. Um to be graphic, but those are real things that can happen. um try the topical route first and then when

you feel a toleration level is happening and it's working. Um then you can reintroduce a capsule and just open one up and just literally lick the end of your finger and and touch something that open that capsule up in a little baggie or a little cup and um just touch it.

Lick your finger and touch it and try it that way and just see how you go. And that's all you're going to do for several days. That's it. One little lick literally and there's no shame. That is literally how we start. That's how we start the program. Very slow baby steps incrementally

cuz and that's how we know what's working and what's and what's not working. And if we do, most people don't have problems, but occasionally they do. Yeah. So don't feel alone. It's real. Absolutely. Cuz I was only able to do six of each. I've been doing this for years. That's the only reason that we don't want to start with.

Yeah. And I've been cuz I've been taking it still the last few days, but I have Yeah. I've been ramping myself back up to taking full doses and even then it takes a while to detox. So, what is your normal like when you go back to your normal dose? What is your normal dose? A lot. [laughter]

That's Well, that's why I Yeah. Um I think I'm actually going to start taking more. I take 10 varsion. Vars glutathione. Yeah. I take 10 vs glutathione. I take eight sars saw every day. Okay. And six catalace every day.

Okay. Yeah. Maybe I need to up my catalyze cuz I'm feeling fabulous. I'm feeling the results of adding the catalies in. That's I keep saying like I feel like every time there's a product it's like this is so great and then it's another product is like just taking us to the next level but because I've been taking four

and I've been on it for about four months. I would try see how you do. I feel like I'm having great success and and really what the um Dr. Perer calls it the triad and most of us with MTHFR have high homocyine issues. You may have a high creat level. You may have a high BUN bun

level. Um, you may have high cytoin issues unknowingly and unknowingly. And the triad is a gamecher in controlling that inflammatory cytoine reaction in our bodies. It's crazy.

Yeah. And uh the catalase is yet again one more part of the puzzle. And so it helps to reduce the hydrogen peroxide that's flowing in your body. That's crazy. And those three all work together. They all work as a trio.

Yeah. What's the biggest change for me when I added catalyst? And I already thought it was life-changing with the bars and so I Right. Yeah. Every time we add something new, it's like you feel the increase. But the thing that I was struggling with was and I'm I've been working out at the gym consistently for a couple of years,

but my recovery like what you were talking about. Yeah. Um especially on leg day for some, you know, big muscles, whatever. Um I would have two to three days of, you know, not normal gym pain, but extreme gym pain. And I kind of felt like I'd gotten to

the place, number one, that I could tolerate it, right? Which because I couldn't have prior to that, right? And then number two, I was like I just kind of resigned myself that if I want to continue this, this is something I just have to accept, right? Um and and so I had for the most part

and then the catalase problem uh product came up and um so I started using that and that's I actually called you one day because I was expecting to be in a lot of pain because it was a heavy leg day and we went it was like an hour of just

legs and I had increased weight and I thought oof this weekend's going to be horrible. [laughter] Yeah. And I woke up in the morning and I was like I do not have pain. what is going on? And the only thing I could think of that was different in my day-to-day

regimen was had having had added in the catalase and it had been long enough that I had been taking it consistently because I was probably like what six or eight weeks at that point and that's I called and was like is this in my head or could this actually be doing this and and uh yeah so anyway so

then your your dad explained why and I don't know that I could expl explain it back but it made sense and all I know is I'm not suffering that way. So for me, it's seriously another piece of the puzzle. A fibro recovery we've had and now post

recovery, building back muscle and uh building back, you know, body mass and whatnot in a positive way that there is tools that you can do. That sounds crazy for those that are right. You know, I can still remember the day when uh I said to

myself sitting on the couch, if I just walk around the kitchen table once today, it'll be a good day, right? And that was that was my reality. And that's where it starts. And that's and so to to have that journey and to be here is wild.

Well, and that's and I was practically bedridden for two years. Um I would get up to take a shower. Yes. But you got to lay down because you're in terrible sweat when you're all done. Yeah. And uh and so that's and that's why I keep saying but we continue

to improve and find to feel better. And so like we're we're rocking it at 60 when we were struggling at 30. That's shame. [laughter] Our poor children, but we are really awesome grandparents. We are. Yeah. Really quick, I fix your mic. It's just

falling into your There we go. Okay. Better. I would move it up just a little bit. Yeah. Did I I think I just pushed a button. Did I turn it off? Uh oh. No, it's still green. No, you're good. Okay. I don't know what I pushed, but Okay, we're good. Okay. Um Yeah. But I think it's incredible to

watch you guys. I say that I feel like you just get better every year. And you're my mom. I've known you for so long. I've known you since I was a kid, too. I've known you your whole life, too. It's fun just to watch you guys just do more and more every year. And my kids say the same thing because they

they they they I was their mother and they knew the struggle and um we're working. Yeah. Yeah. But that's what I want I want people to know. This is there's not an end. There's not a fix. As we continue on this path, the longer you stay on the protocol, the longer that

you keep taking the supplements and we add in things and um the improvement just keeps getting better. Yeah. because this particular protocol uh when when I first started seeing Dr. Perser as my physician um we were not

doing any of this but it was the beginnings that led to this. That's right. And so there was always a step forward right with room for improvement. That's exactly and and that hasn't changed. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It continues on. Catalace Bars Catalase is an example of the latest and

greatest that's come out of that man's great brain. Right. And so we're so grateful and he's still he's still at it and finding out more reasons why and what else, right? And so we all wait. Yeah. And I tell people all the time when I have, you know, in my uh

I need some bright brain, I think. [laughter] Maybe you need some salt. We should maybe some food. I haven't really time for more. Um I totally lost it. Never mind. That's fair is reality. That's okay. Oh, I always tell people um

expect our protocol to change. We are not satisfied that we found things that show improvement. He is still going down the rabbit hole to the next step to the next step. And our protocol has continued to grow and morph through the years. Well, because I can talk about that. I

was the guinea pig for the VARS Trio when we first made the Catalace product. He gave it I I mean maybe you'd been taking it first too, but I like for a full of like this is how much you need to take and I had one of the worst CMAs ever and still the

history of the office [laughter] [gasps] as he openly tells me I had one I think I'm like what maybe number two who knows who I'm not upsetting for your dad that especially at a very young age that's when I was 14 13 and so I have been

trying it first he's given it to his daughter first and not in the best way possible. And because I was in pain, it was horrible. And yeah, the the first few months that we were figuring out the catalyst and he it was his grand idea like, well, why don't you just try taking all three at

the same time and that proves of I've been doing this for years and it just can keep getting better and of that and of and then we had a few months where I wasn't able to take as much as I usually do or just really rationing it down or I was take honestly it got to the point I was taking it every other day for everything. Well, I think everybody, all

of us, we're having to ration because because this is a small business that we're not producing for Walmarts across the nation and it's a more costly, complicated situation. And unfortunately, these things happen to us. They do so patient

with us. Thank you guys. Really, cuz we were separate, too. We feel you on all of it. Yeah. And and I don't know if anybody noticed that they were taking another product um just to hold you over. It wasn't enough. No, that was shocking to me. The adjustment

and then getting back on our product. The swinging back was my body's uh swinging literally and trying almost like a dehydrated person trying to catch up. and what my body experienced the first three or four days. I was like,

"Oh my gosh, I just didn't realize that it I'm sure many of you can relate to that." Yeah. And I'm feeling really good now. So right now because we were we did offer people would ask and we offered them other brands of things that they could to to try to fill the hole until ours came

back. But that's as much as I'm going to give them. And so it wasn't like we were completely without that they were not enough. And that's shocking to me what a difference really amazing components make that again thank you Dr. Perer for formulating the way you do in a way

that's uh so maximizing for each and every one of us that suffer. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think sometimes you need to have a little hiccup in the road so you can have a little reality of Well, that's how I'm feeling now of my heart swing back in because I just

didn't even realize like how much pain I was going to get all the time and how much it's how it creeps on. Brain fed all the time. Yeah. Feels so good. Yeah. Do we want to talk about the diet a little bit? Sure. Sure. Um,

you've been working on revamping it. Yeah. Well, we're kind we kind of just streamlined the list a little bit because it's not it's not a hard and fast list. It's a general um because it's the fibromyalgia the food list. Yeah. So, the foods that are higher in copper versus foods that

are lower in copper. Um and uh we want you to be checking everything that you're eating. We're giving you a starting point, but it's not a be it's not the end of everything. and and so the things that are most important about

the diet um serving size matters and that's why we typically tell people uh well I do anyway I guess I'll see what you say um you know you we use myfooddata.com that's my go-to and you can put in whatever you're eating uh serving size

and it will give you as much nutrient information as they have. Um, sometimes there's a little squiggly which means they don't know. Um, and so then you got to proceed with caution. But the goal is that each item on your plate is each serving of food,

if you have four different things on your plate, each serving is 9% daily value of copper or lower. We have found that most of us can tolerate that amount um without generally generally speaking. There are some people who've had to go even less, but

that's rare. Um, but generally we can process that. We don't overflood ourselves with the heavy metals. Our body can deal with it. We don't worry about a maximum amount of copper. Um, as long as each ind individual food item is

9% or less. Um, yes. So, we got to pay attention to the serving size of each item on your plate. It's a half a cup or whatever. too much of even the good stuff that maybe well if you go over yeah if you go over

so it's that really that 9% is what we're looking at for each food item. Um and it and so you want to get used to looking everything up yourself. Um it's changed so much and it continues to change. The information highway is just out of

control. And when we when I first started looking up foods, you know, if I looked up broccoli, there was like three options, you know. Now, you look up broccoli and there will be 300 options. And so, that's why I tell everybody, you don't blindly just trust the food list. It's a place to start. It's a place to

help you get going. It's a good reference point. And generally speaking, if you have reasonable portions and they're on the, you know, okay to consume side, um, we came up with a new name for that side. I don't remember. avoid and

we used to say avoid and uh like eat I can't remember what it was eat freely or so like you know and that's not really accurate because we want to be we want yeah you can't just eat as much people to consume I think it was something toler I can't

it was good whatever eat as tolerated as tolerated yes as tolerated um but yes so most of most of the stuff on that side of the the yes side of the list um reasonable portions, you're going to be fine. Um, but you still need to check

and if you are flaring, that's, you know, I always tell people to write down in the beginning, write down what you're eating so that if you do have a little flare, it's easy to go back and look and you can look things up and um, you know, maybe you ended up eating, you know, a cup and a half of something when you really like 3/4 of a cup would have been

the appropriate serving size. So, those are just the ways that you tweak things, but generally speaking, the yes side is, you know, safe. And here's the truth. You got to just go through and figure out the foods. Everyone's so different. And we, this is a general list. I have found

that the generalist foods are the foods that I um the avoid foods are bad. And I can't eat most of them. There's very few. And like if I do, it's I'm it's the end of the fork. I'm having the little spike even. And there's and there's a lot of those foods that I can eat now. Like and I am

at a point where I can pretty much eat whatever I want. I'm always mindful. Yeah. I don't eat too many high copper meals consistently. Um, so if you're going to have your treat of peanut butter or nuts at a

[laughter] shrimp, don't do that breakfast, lunch, and dinner, right? Make be thoughtful and plan. Yeah. And you got to be willing to give it up for a little bit just to try it. It takes I mean, I didn't eat avocado for four years. Seriously. And now I do have avocado whenever I have Mexican food,

which is like my favorite. Um, but it's not I can have it whenever I do that and I don't have to think about it or worry because I know it's not part of my daily diet. I swapped a avocado. I used to have like a half an avocado every day

for my healthy fat. I grew up my grandmother had an avocado tree. I love avocado, right? Um, but now my daily healthy fat is olive oil and I buy a high quality olive oil that's dated and all of that so that I know it's pure. Um, and so I don't worry about it. And

so, you know, so that's my go-to healthy fat in my home. Um, and I generally use it. I don't have to worry about it. So, but but I know that when I do have avocado, it's not going to bother me. Yep.

But I'm not eating it daily, right? Yeah. See, for me it's pretty much maybe once on vacation. That's kind of my Yeah, I barely eat avocado. Yeah, I love avocado, too. So, it makes me [laughter] sad. Yeah, she's just at a different place in our journey.

Right. Right. And there was a time where that's where I was, but I've gotten further enough down the road where again, well, I went on vacation one time. Well, was it last summer? I think I went to Mexico. Yes. Um, and because I was telling you, I'm eating avocado every day and shrimp

every day because it's it was delicious. It was so good. Yeah. And it's like, you know, Yeah. It's just It tasted so good. And I thought I just decided to use it as an experiment. I was like cuz I was I I had ordered it like two days ago. I was like, I don't even care. I'm here for a week. I'm going to eat what I

want. Um, and I'll deal with it. We'll see what happens. And honestly, I came I never had a negative reaction. However, so that was one week of vacation. When I got home, I went pretty strict just to make sure and I didn't continue

that, but I was like, "Okay, I can go on vacation for a week and eat whatever I want." Now, if I would have continued that when I got home for two or three more weeks, it would have I believe it would have caught up with me. I would have ended up flaring and then I would have had to really backpedal. But my body was able

to tolerate and digest it properly and move it where it needed to go. Um, because she's consistently taking supplements. And I do if I I want to say I want to I was taking like a couple of extra copper balance every night when I went to bed

just to offset just to offset it a little bit. Yeah. Time because I'm like I want shrimp. I I don't I try it like that. It can't be every single meal, but if I know we're going to go to a if we're on the coast and we're going to a great seafood place cuz we live in a landmark state, I'm like, "No,

I'm getting shrimp or I what? Whatever. I want something really bad in avocado." So, that's maybe the one time I'll eat it on vacation or maybe I'll do it for a few dinners, but it's that I have to take extra copper balance or extra sod and you may never get to the point that I am.

You know, we just we just don't know. Or you might or you might. Well, because what were we? We were just talking about nuts and peanut butter. I can't even I smell peanut butter and I get a my neck aches. Yeah. How crazy is that? Like, let me know if you guys feel the same thing. I I seriously cuz I give peanut

butter to my dog occasionally and I put it on one of those lick mats and when I do, I have to kind of turn my head the other way when I'm doing it because if I smell it, it makes my neck ache and I can't touch any any. And you do not have nut allergies

as your mother. But how interesting. Yeah. But I can't touch any nuts at all says to me. Well, and it's funny cuz so nuts and seeds I'm very sensitive to them, but again I'm at a stage where I can handle small amounts of them. Yeah. But small amounts and like I don't know that I would ever push the boundary for

that because I know how my body reacts to that. Um and so I mean I remember calling you one time because I got we didn't this was before we had a food list and we were still experimenting. You guys were in Disney World, right? And uh I had gotten rid of my almond

butter that I was eating every day and I had replaced it with sunflower butter and but I thought I got rid of the almond butter, so what's the deal? And I remember calling and I was like, I don't know what's going on. This was years ago. I don't know if you remember this. I do. And I was just like, I don't know what to do. I'm like on the verge of tears. I'm in so much pain. And

I asked, what are you eating? Yeah. What are Well, what have you been eating? What's different? I said, well, I just switched sunflower. I just remember Dan saying, well, stop eating that. Yep. I was like, "Oh, duh." I stopped eating it and like within two days I was better. And that's when it was like,

"Oh, we got to start looking up every single thing." Right. And that's when I just I thought at first it was just almonds because I was eating almonds. I was drinking almond milk. I was eating almonds. It's a healthy snack. My nine little almonds in the afternoon or whatever. Um so I was just attributing it to just

almonds. And then that's when I realized it's all nuts and seeds. I'm very sensitive, right? So, I am at a point where I can tolerate a small little handful, maybe once a month. I've never pushed it more than that because I know that that's something that triggers me very easily.

So, those are ways that we just manage through life and you'll figure out your triggers. I I can't even I can't do peanut like the peanut oil drizzle that they do on meals. I will just Nope. I'm okay. No, thank you. Yeah. I can tell when they cook food in peanut

oil. I can tell like I'm Can we say play? Yeah. Like Five Guys. I love Five Guys. I have loved Five Guys. It was always a movie theater treat. We would go and get that little burger. Yeah. You know, once every few months. And I I can't do it. They cook every

Maybe it's changed now, but they cook everything in peanut oil. They still have boxes of peanut oil. Yeah. And they're so happy to say that they cook everything in peanut oil cuz it's they it's technically better for you technically. But when you have fibro, right? So, if your local place is always

making you a little sick afterwards, maybe figure out what they're cooking it in [laughter] because No, that's the question. Yeah, cuz I also hate I hate going out to new restaurants, too, because I don't cuz they say they are not cooking in peanut oil and then I eat something like you you guys cook this in peanut oil and the waitress always admits it later. I

don't get mad at anybody. That's not it. But it's just interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But and I think you're one of those more sensitive people. Yeah, I'm super sensitive. Yeah, you are. I miss peanut butter. [laughter] Yes. I love peanut butter and jelly

sandwiches. Oh god. I haven't had one of those in I don't even know how long. Memory. Yeah. I wouldn't even touch my Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. And that's okay. It is okay. Um anything else on the food that you think we should touch on? Just eat how we how we're eating.

Yeah. Just you have to go through you have to be willing to cut certain foods out and just try it. My encouragement is be really strict. Yeah. For at least 90 days. That's what I tell people. I don't know what you tell people, but I I encourage you to be really strict for 90 day. Yes. If you're

were starting this and then and you know, life happens. You have kids, you go out to dinner, whatever. We do our best. But if that's the focus for at least three months, right? Then if you feel like most people at that point have had improvement. Yeah. And if you feel like you're ready

or you're not, if you're still healing, some people go longer. Some people will go six or nine months before they start dabbling in the higher food and you know, things like that. Um, you just got to get it out of your body. You have to get it out of your body. Yeah. And we're all different in how we

do that and and and but being as strict as possible in the beginning is the most important. I always tell everybody, don't waste your money on the supplements. Y if you're not going to focus because you're just going to be like a hamster on the wheel. you're going to be chasing it. But if you're still ingesting

these these Yeah. your your your body can't catch up. We got to let the body catch up because the supplements will help. But it's just that you have to catch up and you have to be Yeah. Because you're just putting it right back in as fast as you're because then the supplements are able to actually get into your cells and into

your muscles and really push everything out because I I still have to do that occasionally. if I've had a really bad fibro flare or if I've just been, you know, we're coming back from vacation or anything like that and I just for a few days I just have to be a little more strict and I feel detox

better. Yeah. And that's what I do if I'm feeling whatever you know is happening. If I feel something coming on, I just tighten it really up for a couple of days and that usually does the trick. Take a few extra copper balance up my catalase, my glutathione and my side, you know, all of those things. So

a little bit and then you're good to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it works. Help that transformation. You want to talk about the gym at all? Uh did we talk about that already? You mentioned it. Okay. Recovery. Yeah. Well, that was that was the thing.

Yeah. Working out. So, being on this protocol so long um and being so inactive, you know, and even though I was doing yoga, which was great, um it wasn't building my muscle, right? I it wasn't enough at my age, right? Um and uh I well I was in Hawaii

swimming with my grandson and uh the water was rough and I was holding his hand. I was always a very confident swimmer. I was a competitive swimmer as a young person. Um and it was the first time that I felt not confident in the water and it really scared me because I

thought not only was I worried about like if something happened I couldn't help myself let alone him, right? And that scared me. I didn't like that feeling and I was like I got to get back in the gym and lifting weights. I need to get some muscle back. So, um, and honestly, uh, it was intimidating for me

even and I had been doing yoga like crazy at that point. Um, but I recovery in the gym. I have a lot of bad experiences with that in the past. Um, and so I interviewed trainers, told them my concerns, told them what I wanted and and we and I I

have this young Jacob. He's amazing. Um, and he just worked with me from the beginning. And I just told him, I was like, "You can't train me like other people. Uh, I got to start really slow." And so we started with like two sets of six or eight. Yep. Um, you know, uh, and there would be

days when I would come in and and, you know, or days when I was like, I just can't do it today because I was still recovering. My recovery was so hard. And, uh, I started with two days a week, right? Two 30 minute sessions. Um, and then slowly I increased it to I think after a

year we went to three days a week, three 30 minute sessions. And now I do three days a week, but Thursdays is an hour. So I'm doing two hours of weightlifting. Um, and I'm getting stronger. All of those things now. I can do three sets of 15 or 20 and you know, we've increased

the weight. But it was a very slow process. And I think that's the thing. You got to find somebody who's going to work with you, who's going to meet you where you're at and not push you. Because I had had trainers in the past where I mean, when you're throwing up in the gym, it's not good.

It's not fun. Yeah. And it's like I can't I am not capable of doing this at recover. We just can't recover the same. And so that's where the catalace is amazing for me because again, I think I said, you know, my recovery on those hard leg days

uh was something I just thought I was going to have to live with. But I was able to do it and I was surviving, [laughter] right? Which, you know, I just the fact that I could do it kept me going. Um, and so, but now I don't even have the the pain, which is amazing. I'm my body is

recovering like it needed to. And we have come to understand that I have all of those errors, right, for uh the inflammation and the cytoins. And so, that's the one thing that we're addressing now, right, that we hadn't addressed previously. and

it is making the difference in my life. And that's I I like to take things for a while and see how it's actually working before I'm talking about it so that I can speak from my own experience and how it's affected me and so that I feel like I've been taking it long enough now and I've seen the results. It's time to talk

about it. Exactly. And so that I can hopefully help other people. But I don't I don't talk about it until I know and tried it for myself. So yeah. Yeah. But so you can get back in the gym eventually. That does I mean I had been on this program for what six years?

Yeah. Before I felt like I was ready to take that on and just be committed to it and realizing I mean you had a realization and that's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. So and now even when I have days where I feel a little less energy or

whatever at the beginning I I would have just canceled my appointment, right? But I don't even I don't have to do that anymore. I show up once. I love that. I love that. Look, I can I'm I'm currently taking a break from the gym. I work out at home and like I said, I do I do a lot of walking and I

ride my bike and I do light weight lifting. I just do I like to do my five pounds at home. It's all [laughter] I do more than that sometimes, I promise. But um this last year because I've been really I've done kickboxing. I've done Muay Thai and jiu-jitsu for

since I was 16, 15 years old. And I was and that's after I had gotten back onto I'd gotten my fibro more fixed up for those few years and I was doing really good and like that I would just have to take breaks. I wouldn't recover and so I could go for three months or two months or a month

and then I have to take two months off. Do you know what I mean? So I just wasn't recovering at all and I'm the I go I would go too hard. I've always been like that. So I'd go to two-hour classes every single day. Yeah. Um, in this last year, I I was having I what arrogance maybe of I was

one of I just didn't want to take the pills anymore. I was I don't even know. I was just being really weird about it. I was having a weird diet. And it's not that they were hurting me or anything. I just wasn't taking them as I should have. And I ended up sadly breaking a finger and multiple toes in the span of

like a week. And I was having the worst fibro pain ever. And we have photos of me from those nights because we went to dinner after and I had this horrible. It was a horrible It was a really badly broken finger. It's still a little disfigured right now. And it swelled up like a bowling pin and it was bowling

bowling ball. A bowl. No, no. What were the the pins? My finger looked like that. And and I'm still having to recover cuz I was in the worst fibro flare ever and I ended up hurting myself because of that. And like then I think I bruised my

ribs at the same time too. You did. and and that's me and I was 20 maybe I think I was 19 when that still happened and maybe I had just turned 20 and so I've had to take quite a few I'm up to almost a year off now and I'm still recovering I hurt myself so badly

but just out of I'm you know I'm 20 I was between the ages of like 19 to 21 and of I was having really bad fibro flares and I just wasn't I was taking the supplements I just wasn't taking them like I should have and I wasn't doing that I wasn't detoxing enough consistently the

consistency I put on quite a bit of weight during that time and it just made it all worse cuz it was that I was so swollen and I was in so much pain and then I hurt myself multiple times right and I think that's a normal thing that a lot of people go through I mean I went through that previously right because I would be taking so many

handfuls of things I mean now we know I mean my first CMA yes which was a spectr at that time right was I mean I just remember him calling me and saying I don't even know how you're walking Yeah. [laughter]

And everything was terrible, you know, not even borderline. I was like severely deficient in almost everything. Um, and so, but there were times where leading up to that, I mean, when we were just starting, but previously, it's like you're taking all the supplements, you're doing things when you're not seeing

rec, you just kind of give up and you're like, I still feel terrible. It's not making a difference. Um, but I think now we have a master formula that actually is making a difference. And so, um,

like now I would never do that, right? [laughter] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cuz the days I don't take my supplements every day. I'm I'm twitchy all day. I'm like, what's going to happen? I don't feel very well. Or not. It's not that bad, but of I just know that it helps and my body wants to

help itself now. I feel Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have bottles everywhere in my house. Well, you guys do, too. They're in my bathroom. They're next to my bed. They're next to my spot on the couch. They're, you know, so I can just look and grab and just keep So, it's like I'm taking things constantly

and they're just everywhere and because you never know if you need a little more, a little tweak of this, a little Yeah. A little flick of that. I mean, we were at lunch the other day and I was putting my pills [laughter] on the table. Yeah. Had them in her big bag. Yeah. I had my very big bag that I tote around with all

my vitamins in them and I just they understood. So I was like I'm just going to put these here and I'm going to take them really quick and then I'll put them away. But it's just worth it every day cuz I just don't care anymore. I do that when I go to dinner or lunch by myself now. I just really don't care what people think anymore. People, oh

boy, why are you taking all I get weird looks, but it's [laughter] I feel good. Okay, I do feel good though. That's the point. I feel so good. Yeah, I know. I'm excited because I we did a C drew a CMA on me yesterday. It had been what did you look it up to? 2024.

2024. So it had been almost about two years. Yeah. Dr. Per recommends if you can every year or if you feel yourself going south. What can trigger that? An event. You know, a fibro flare can trigger and it just is longer to recover. Um maybe you had a little dental surgery. Uh

you've had an extreme thing happen in your life, a high stress situation. It just literally depletes you. And because of our genetic issues, because we have MTHFR issues and many other fun things, um we don't recover right and and that's the real deal. And so we need to stay on

top of our where are we at in our uh deficiencies because we are going to have them because of our genetics. It's just the way it's going to be, right? And we feel better. Yeah. But I'm excited to see this one just because I mean we went this is probably the longest I've gone. I think

I'm usually like 12 to 18 months is usually about where our I have done it in the past and this seems to be the longest but I think because I'm feeling so good that I have and now I'm just here and we were just like we hadn't even talked about it beforehand. We were like should do I need a CMA how long has it been since I Yeah. So, so we're just doing

that just to check in, see where I'm at, and if I need to flick something, change something. I don't. But I'm I'm excited to see to see what the results are because Yeah, there's always something to change. But yeah, hopefully it'll be Yeah.

Little to nothing. That'd be wonderful. Would be great. [laughter] We do see those. We do see them. So, and they're doing And I've never had one of those yet. Yes. [laughter] Yes. Me neither. Me neither. It's always You're dying. How are you still alive right now? Yeah. [laughter]

One time he told me, "Can you just go find a piece of iron and pick it up and start chewing on it?" There we go. So, but you're better about eating a little red meat. I'm lot better about eating red meat and getting those B vitamins in. And that has been that has been a

journey. I mean, he probably told me I mean probably 10 years ago, yeah, you need to eat more red meat. You need to eat more red meat. And um you just can't just go dive into that. You got to do you need a little extra vitamin C? Do you need to worry your

vitamin B is at? That's where the spectra cell comes into play. Looking intracellular can appear like is it's actually low just low. So you need those baselines to be somewhere. say we'll have patients take those things first for a few weeks and then add in their iron verichell

supplementation and include introducing beautiful meat. I know it's scary these days. We hear all these weird things in the news. What am I really eating? So, don't be afraid to get outside your comfort zone and find some butcher shops in your local area that have fresh, you

know, they're getting from local ranchers and might cost a few pennies more, but you need the good stuff. You need the real stuff. Don't. And honestly, I've started going to a local butcher. Um, and it's really not more expensive. There you go. But the quality I feel like I was I I'm not paying more, but the quality is

definitely better. Excellent. And you're probably eating more because of that. Well, it tastes better. And so I mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but for me, I was like, even if I'm paying a few dollars more a week, right, I was willing to do it, but I don't think I am, right? You know that that's what I'm I don't think it's

I don't think it's that much more if it is. So a little extra planning. Yeah. But it's worth it. Yeah. So yeah. So I'm I go to the butcher on Mondays after the gym. I love that. [laughter] That's your date with the butcher. Yeah. It's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel better when I eat

red meat. I mean, and he's told me this for years. Um and it it is true. I feel better. I can literally feel my body absorbing the nutrients. It's so so So I try to eat red meat three four times a week. He told me I should eat it every

day but three four times a week is good for me. You [laughter] are doing great. So we just keep working towards that. Yeah. I need to get to that level. I am not eating red meat that much and I always have low iron levels. Yeah. Well and I'm not and and again we don't have to sit down and eat a 10

steak. All you need is three ounces. So, I'll buy I'll buy I'll cook a steak and that will be, you know, if it's a 6 ounce, I'll make that two meals. Yeah. You know, you don't have to you don't serving size matters. Serving size in every capacity.

It does. You don't have to do that. So, but if you're getting good quality be, you don't need a whole bunch. Yeah. You know, so yeah, 3 4 ounces is sufficient. You know, you're getting your 30 plus grams of good protein and all those B vitamins that your body knows what to do with.

Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And okay, this is I remembered because we meet every week and Arizona usually, so we have our little phone calls to make sure everything's going all right. Do you want to talk about the benefits of weight loss and how it's helped with fibroan managing? I remember we were

just booked. Yeah, we were we were talking about that. Yeah. So, um I just was slow menopause. I was gaining weight and anyway, whatever. It is what it is. Uh so, when I did start going to the gym, um and I

had even I had been trying to do things and nothing was really happening. And my motivation wasn't even for weight loss. It was really just to be as healthy as I could be so I could play with my grandkids and feel good. And uh I was like, well, if my body isn't going to release this weight, you know, doesn't mean I shouldn't still be walking three

miles every morning because I can, doing yoga a few times a week, going to the gym. So, I did. And so, it has taken me about two years to lose 40 pounds. Um, but what I am noticing even in that and and it's just the side effect of the

consistency and like I said, I started with little teeny baby steps, right? um and just doing what you know I had to meet myself where I was but it is the consistency and showing up but what I have noticed too is um I was always a really bad sweller after flying I mean

you know I would fly and then you I'd come and my feet would just be huge terrible um me too had that at like 16 yeah so I hated to travel and so this last year I've traveled more than I have in a really long time and I'm not having those things and the and that I do think

it's the shift in weight. And my goal in saying that or talking about it is I know I'm not the only one who struggled and is like you feel like you're doing all the things and you're you're in your 50s or whatever and weight isn't releasing, but if you're consistent,

true, it will happen. It might not happen in the time period that you want. Um but going in that direction is what's important. And doing those things daily so that you do feel better. And then one day you wake up and you go, "Oh, wow." Like and and I'm seeing the differences

in other in other ways. So yeah, I think like don't that's what I'm saying. Don't give up. Even if you've been doing this protocol for five years, um just keep going and start slowly and every new thing that you try um if you start

slowly but you stay consistent. That's the We've heard that our whole life, but it really is true. It's those consistency, the choices you're making daily. Um, consist of perfection is my favorite. 100%. Yeah. Cuz you never reach perfection. It's so

like maybe there's Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? But we all have this of life. I'm painless all the time. I'll never eat any like these bad foods, right? And well, and I had you have I had to relearn thinking. I remember um early on in this journey even because I used to

lift weights. I was very active. I used to do all this stuff. And every time I would try to start something like that, that was I would think you could jump back in. I know what I can do. Well, [laughter] no, you can't do that anymore. And that was something that Dr. Perer said to me probably 10 years ago

was like, you got to relearn how to work out. Yeah. You know, and again, start slow and go. And but that took a long time to really manifest in my own brain. I'm a rebel apparently. But um well cuz when I was 16 and I was coming

out of another one of like the worst fibro flares ever like it'd been a six month or longer fibro flare. Um I remember I would just go swimming at night after school and we live in Utah so it snows. So I went to the local rec center and I would

bless you mom for letting me go. But yeah but she knew I I just hurt so badly and I couldn't I couldn't do I The pool is amazing. It really hurts to walk. My biggest thing was walking like in like during school and then walking to the pool to go swimming at night and I would just go swim laps and I would go so slow and I

know I made people mad but I can swim around you. It was the only thing I could do. It was the only thing I could do. Everything else just hurt way too much to do and it saved my bacon. It got me back into I could start picking up doing gentle weightlifting and then going up from there. And I like you say like there's no shame in, you know,

maybe because I'm older, but I think I was more intimidated when I was younger. Yeah. To go to show up and it's like I can't do what I want to do. I don't look the way I want to look. And you know, and it's like why am I even doing this? And that was that was really the shift this time, the stage of

my life where it was like, I don't even care. The goal isn't X. It's just to feel better. It's to get stronger, to build my muscle. quality. Um, yes. And and you know, at this age, I need to add weights back in. It's important. And so, and it's it it has

done all the things. Now, the first six months, did I feel like it was doing much? Not really, you know. Um, but I was just and that and actually that's what I told my trainer. I was like, I just need someone to be accountable to and I need consistency. I need to make the habit to where and now it's like I

can't not go right because I would have guilt for not showing up and I have to be there for him, you know, and it's just my body feels better. I'm craving it and so and that was really the goal and it was like it's not even about any of the other stuff. It's just to be healthier

and the other stuff is the is hopefully the side effects will come in the way that I I hope that they do and they are. Um well cuz the one day you're up and realizing it's like wow I was just able to go walk around the park with my family and I'm not falling apart you know it's all it's all that those small

steps that that might seem might feel a little shameful. I felt that too of oh my gosh I should be able to do more than this. Why can't I do more than this? It's so frustrating especially as a young woman. It was so debilitating. Yeah. But even in April

Yeah. I went with my sister to Disney World. We hadn't been there in like 20 years together. And and that's what I'm like we were we had one really long Disney day and I hadn't had a long Disney day in a really long time. We don't like long Disney days anymore.

Little short but we got up in the morning, we went we were there till closing and that's I mean I just and that was amazing to me. I Yeah, it was like Yeah. I I just And and I didn't suffer for it. I didn't suffer for it and I

thought I would. But um yeah, we had so much fun. But yeah, I mean we were walking out of there at 11:00 at night. We got there at 9:00 in the morning. And what a fun day. Yeah. And but I could not have done that, right? 10 years ago.

No. Well, we would go and we'd be we'd be taking turns in wheelchairs. It's not a joke. We would get wheelchairs and we would all take turns riding in the wheelchair. Okay. I need I need a turn. Walk. We were trying.

Yeah. Or we would I remember just parking it at the open tables and just sitting there for half the afternoon, you know, cuz we literally couldn't walk out to the car so badly. I remember wheelchair races in the in the parking lot. I remember that. It's true. Well, cuz you feel almost dangerous

walking present. Well, and it's just not possible. I'm not going to be able to participate if I have to walk the whole day. So, the fact that now I could literally do a 20,000 step Disney day. Wild, right? when 10 years ago we were we were taking

turns in wheelchairs. Yeah. Yep. Right. You know, I mean, no shame. There's no And there's no shame in any of it. And had we not had we not done that, you know. Yeah. It is. It's all part of the story. It's all doesn't cut you out of either. Like, you know, this is different ages and it

doesn't you just can't be ashamed, right? Look at us now. We do walk 10 miles every day. I walk 10 miles just being here sometimes and just having fun, riding your bike and everything. Yeah. And I'll do 10 miles on that on my bike every day, but not every day. But then it's that some days I'm like,

"Okay, it's going to be a a lesser day today." Sometimes we need rest days. Rest days are important, too. Absolutely. But that's what I mean. Like we still just you still don't recover the best, but it's just it's so much better than it was, right? So much better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I woke up the

next day and I was fine. Yeah. You went again, didn't you? And we did walking. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. That was the longest day. That was the longest day. Yeah, but the fact that you were ready, willing, and able to get up the next day and go. It wasn't like I have to lay in

bed for the next week just to recover. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Those days are in the rear. Yeah. I remember when we would go places where we would walk a lot in the morning and walk a lot and you know, and this can be a lot, but for what you should be able to do every you know, we'd walk like

three miles and I remember we'd have to come back and we'd be out for the rest of the afternoon. I know you remember that. Yeah. He'd put our feet up on the wall and we'd have to lay up and like Yes. I can't do anything else for the rest of this. And that's when I was a teenager. Yeah. Yeah.

Suffering is real. Yeah. And it's just it's so fun to see the bright future ahead. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Let's go be because we like to go walk laps. That's what you and me do. We go and walk laps purposely and we like to do we're like let's drive for 10 miles

today. But it's so fun to be able to say that. You know what I mean? And those and that's still pushing it for us because you know we like to try to hit five miles and that's crazy to even think that we do that still when that was so impossible before but that we like let's see how far we can go tonight and it's so much fun.

Yeah. Yeah. And so the goal here is to encourage you to stick with it to keep going and that even if you've seen a lot of improvement you can keep improving. Right. And if you've had fallbacks it's nothing to be ashamed of and you can make it back.

It's expected. This is multiple years all between us. So, multiple decades of doing this and and we've gone through parts where I'm doing better than you, you're doing better than me, and we're just we still keep tweaking things. Yeah. So, we we know we've lived it. We

we see it every day with the people that we're talking to. So, yeah, just don't give up and it can keep getting better. Yeah. I mean, even when we started this page, we were so excited because we were doing so much better, right? And we're doing so much better than we were seven years ago. Wild. Yeah, it is wild. And we thank you for

all your input and sharing all these years. You have been gold. Yes. And encouraging each other. Yeah. The support is amazing. It is. Amazing. It is. Yeah. We hope you guys enjoyed. We We actually just did an hour of that. Wow. Oh, perfect.

There we go. Hope you all enjoyed. This has been wonderful to be with you, you guys. I know you're chatting away all the time, so thanks for including me. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. There is a brighter future ahead and just keep going. It's all the little stuff that adds up. Consistency

over perfection. Consistency over perfection. I love that. And you'll just you'll crave taking the vitamins every day. You'll crave supplements. You'll crave being active. That it's all beautiful. Look forward to it. Have hope in the future cuz it's there. That's really Yeah. to keep the hope

alive, you know, and there there's ups and downs during the process and but it's just the process. Exactly. And when you fall back, you can come back better than ever. I've done that multiple times. It's impossible. It'll never happen. I'm just going to be stuck here forever. You've worked out for years. Pull right through it. Dig right out.

And then you're better. And yeah, it's amazing. Thank you guys so much. And thank you guys for tuning in. I'm so excited for all of you to see this. Yeah. We'll hear back from you guys soon. We're going to go record a little bit more. So, have a great day, guys. Thank you. Thanks.